tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post3748248068545405194..comments2023-08-18T10:11:45.483-04:00Comments on Mike In Midwood: YESHIVA HIGH SCHOOL DROP OUTSMikeinmidwoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18076346601047947913noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-71779452566453614962008-09-22T23:09:00.000-04:002008-09-22T23:09:00.000-04:001) lol. yes i do. I get home at 5:15 and I have n...1) lol. yes i do. I get home at 5:15 and I have no HW anymore. SO i'm free :)<BR/><BR/><BR/>2)agree<BR/><BR/>3) Maaser money is not mine to spend, but its my responsibility to donate it, so it goes to a good cause. If you know you're donating money to something that will waste it, its in your hands. If you atleast TRY to give money to the right cause, you can atleast sleep peacefully.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-4994542789283863552008-09-22T22:58:00.000-04:002008-09-22T22:58:00.000-04:00MikeInMidwood: 1) lol, I don't have enough time!2)...MikeInMidwood: 1) lol, I don't have enough time!<BR/><BR/>2) agree with you upto the point of starving the funds<BR/><BR/>3) I forgot about that, your right.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-31800388711897074312008-09-22T22:46:00.000-04:002008-09-22T22:46:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic/Babysitter1) you have way too much tim...FrumSkeptic/Babysitter<BR/><BR/>1) you have way too much time on your hands.<BR/>2)There should be a fine line between all out no learning and only learning. there should be a balance somewhere and thats what we need.The only way to achieve the balance is to starve the funds.<BR/>3) Maaser is not yours dont think of it that way you only get to give it to whatever you want.Mikeinmidwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076346601047947913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-11529653346385005422008-09-22T18:39:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:39:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: well when you put it that way, ok, th...FrumSkeptic: well when you put it that way, ok, that makes sense. :-)Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-38176777553776629192008-09-22T18:37:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:37:00.000-04:00babysitter- I work hard for my money and the fact ...babysitter- I work hard for my money and the fact that I have to give 10% of it away makes me wanna atleast give away the 10% to a worthy cause.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, Don't want the money going to a cause I don't find worthyfrumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-37545252763086852972008-09-22T18:31:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:31:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: lol ok. (But...I still think you shou...FrumSkeptic: lol ok. <BR/><BR/>(But...I still think you shouldn't on purpose not give them tzedaka. I mean I wouldn't go out of my way to support kollel, but at the same time I wouldn't go out of my way to make sure the tzedaka organization isn't affiliated with a kollel.)Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-15209878375841618082008-09-22T18:28:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:28:00.000-04:00not starting a revoltuion. waaaaaay to lazy for th...not starting a revoltuion. waaaaaay to lazy for that.<BR/><BR/>Just standing up for what I beleive (or disbelieve). I don't think kolel is a worthy cause, so I don't give ma'aser to yeshivos.<BR/><BR/>If everyone did that, they'd have no choice but to shut down. I can write a blog post about it, but thats as much as my laziness will permit in "revolutionizing"<BR/><BR/>lolfrumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-27457361362474484582008-09-22T18:26:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:26:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: ok so you plan on making a revolution...FrumSkeptic: ok so you plan on making a revolution, putting a stop to it so that it will reform. <BR/><BR/>Good Luck!<BR/><BR/>Those are big projects your taking on!Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-57975951166352261512008-09-22T18:22:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:22:00.000-04:00babysitter- No problem supporting a guy that learn...babysitter- No problem supporting a guy that learns if he actually learns, but thats IDEAL. But the system will not reform until we stop supprting it.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-63007266814105375062008-09-22T18:15:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:15:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: funny you bring up the yessuchur zevu...FrumSkeptic: funny you bring up the yessuchur zevulan comment, cause I always used that to defend working. <BR/><BR/>Your right they shouldn't be expected to be supported. So maybe the answer is to improve the kollel system and not to kill it. They can make it that people can only be in kollel if A- they are really learning B- Not using it as a lazy way out C- have a partnership with someone willing to support them. Although I do think its ok for a kollel to be considered a tzedaka, and then the tzedaka money can also go to support them. SO long as the people are authentic learners then I would see it as a great thing. Although I don't think its the ideal thing for a person to do. It's only for those that can, and not everyone has to, and not everyone has to live with someone who will be learning in kollel.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-32188929267833216012008-09-22T18:04:00.000-04:002008-09-22T18:04:00.000-04:00babysitter- in the times of the torah, the "full t...babysitter- in the times of the torah, the "full time" learning was between yissachoar and zevulin, where ONE brother worked and ONE did not. It was arranged taht way. It wasn't a system of leeches where they EXPECT to be supported.<BR/><BR/>We're supposedly in a parnassa crisis. Well, I've got news for you. i don't feel bad ONE bit about the fact that frummies don't have money. <BR/><BR/>When someone digs their own grave, I like to stand idly by and laugh. And thats what I'm doing. reading the Yated every shabbos and laughing. I'm betting on what it is that gets them to stop with this kolel crisis (now THATS a crisis) and how long it takes.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-1517465348091901762008-09-22T17:58:00.000-04:002008-09-22T17:58:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: But the kollel system isn't bad in it...FrumSkeptic: But the kollel system isn't bad in its own right, its a good cause, just might not be practical. No reason to end Torah learning if it can exist. <BR/><BR/>Having an education is not necessary for survival. I mean it may be crucial for some. But its not a must for others. <BR/><BR/>Just like living in a foreign country without knowing their language is possible. It may be hard to get around with people not understanding you, but it is possible.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-18581164550214220082008-09-22T17:35:00.000-04:002008-09-22T17:35:00.000-04:00babysitter- the way the kolel system is today, nee...babysitter- the way the kolel system is today, needs to be stopped. This is the only way to get them to see that they are digging their own graves by not getting educations.<BR/><BR/>Its very simple. And its not like they'll end up starving.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-87462474090377487662008-09-22T00:23:00.000-04:002008-09-22T00:23:00.000-04:00mike- I read the idea on another blog, and my pare...mike- I read the idea on another blog, and my parents completely adapted it.<BR/><BR/>They ask the telemarketers now "Do you give to kollel families?" and if they say yes, my parents don't give!frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-69634940382274303312008-09-22T00:21:00.000-04:002008-09-22T00:21:00.000-04:00FrumSkepticGreat plan.FrumSkeptic<BR/><BR/>Great plan.Mikeinmidwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076346601047947913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-5742534484862420832008-09-22T00:10:00.000-04:002008-09-22T00:10:00.000-04:00Babysitter-"But the administration, obviously don'...Babysitter-<BR/>"But the administration, obviously don't see it that way, so nothing will change till they see it as a problem."<BR/><BR/>It will change quicker if we stop giving tzedakah to the yeshivos and to the families. Then they'll run out of money quicker, and maybe the administrations will realize craeting a society full of leeches can easily backfirefrumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-761109932811013922008-09-19T13:52:00.000-04:002008-09-19T13:52:00.000-04:00Mlevin: I never paid attention to if it was High S...Mlevin: I never paid attention to if it was High School drop outs or College drop outs, but perhaps you are right.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-49410992725981655862008-09-19T13:04:00.000-04:002008-09-19T13:04:00.000-04:00"Then again, all these great smart billionaires we..."Then again, all these great smart billionaires were high school drop outs, although I agree its not the norm. " <BR/><BR/>Please name one. I know plenty of Billionares who are college drop outs, but that's a lot different. High school provides a base for ones education, without that base they cannot accomplish anything, college... well it's a totally different story. That's why in this country high school is free, but college one has to pay for.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-28307482887212150202008-09-19T12:19:00.000-04:002008-09-19T12:19:00.000-04:00FrumSkeptic: True, but... I won't get all into it ...FrumSkeptic: True, but... I won't get all into it now, perhaps I will write a post about my view of money, sometime.<BR/><BR/>SporadicIntelligence: Yea, I've heard that about the Rabbi's having like a war with the English teacchers, but I thought they were making it up. So perhaps the boys schools are really messed up. See Frumskeptic, at least the girls school's have a secular education, whatever it may be. <BR/><BR/>But there are some school's that are frum, not MO, and yet still encourage secular education, like chofetz chaim. <BR/><BR/>But you still have to understand, you can't really change the way things are, unless you can change their mentality on how they view this stuff. Until they realize the importance of secular education they won't be willing to accept it.<BR/><BR/>BSA: I would agree, but then again these aren't real drop outs, their only dropping out of part of school. Then again, all these great smart billionaires were high school drop outs, although I agree its not the norm. <BR/><BR/>Lion Of Zion: You may be right, I can see that, that's true. <BR/><BR/>Ok, so now that we've come to the decision that there's a lack of secular education in the boys school's, we have to figure out if it's truly a problem. Everyone here would agree its a bad thing, that its a problem. But the administration, obviously don't see it that way, so nothing will change till they see it as a problem.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-56739340779551227372008-09-19T02:54:00.000-04:002008-09-19T02:54:00.000-04:00BABYSITTER:"But the school offers it! So their doi...BABYSITTER:<BR/><BR/>"But the school offers it! So their doing their part."<BR/><BR/>they offer it to satisfy government requirements and parents' expectations (many of whom are themselves more educated than their kids will ever be, but that is their fault for sending them to schools that didn't match their own השקפות). it many schools it is not at all done wholeheartedly and the talmidim know very well that the school and rebbeim consider this a בדיעבד, at best.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-85548860934571482472008-09-18T22:45:00.000-04:002008-09-18T22:45:00.000-04:00Frumskeptic LOLBabysitterNo its not out of lazines...Frumskeptic <BR/><BR/>LOL<BR/><BR/>Babysitter<BR/><BR/>No its not out of laziness that they drop out its because of the rabbeim like Sporadic said. Many kids are told to stop taking english and learn the rest of the time. <BR/><BR/>Dont start saying all rebbeim are bad I had rebbeim that said forget english its narishkeit and had some that said you need to have secular education it will help you in life.<BR/><BR/>Mlevin<BR/><BR/>You are right in all ways but I wouldnt put it that harsh.<BR/><BR/>Sporadic<BR/><BR/>yes there is a war and the rebbeim are winning<BR/><BR/>Sam<BR/><BR/>Thanks (for agreeing)<BR/><BR/>S A B<BR/><BR/>You wouldnt, So many others will.Mikeinmidwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076346601047947913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-12833933477842253882008-09-18T21:36:00.000-04:002008-09-18T21:36:00.000-04:00i think think high school drop outs are a bunch of...i think think high school drop outs are a bunch of low-lifes and i would never take one for a shidduchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-18324968480956735272008-09-18T21:32:00.000-04:002008-09-18T21:32:00.000-04:00mike youre right why would someone want to skip se...mike youre right why would someone want to skip secular studies i for one never wanted toskip secular studies it was always my favorite part of the day(except for davening ofcourse)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-79489212579668454472008-09-18T20:17:00.000-04:002008-09-18T20:17:00.000-04:00Few things: First, I worked in a boys Yeshiva for ...Few things: <BR/><BR/>First, I worked in a boys Yeshiva for two years. And while the teachers were excellent, and in comparison to other Yeshiva's this English department was bar none, there is an underlying war going on between the Rebbi's and English teachers. The Rebbi's are winning. <BR/><BR/>They do seemingly innocuous things that really give over an attitude. For example a collegeue of mine taught the word omit, and wrote in on the board. It was on the board the next day, and when the Rebbi saw it he added a v in front, so it read vomit, and commented, "that's English"<BR/><BR/>2- If your son if the next gadol hador, fine, let him not go to English. Except you won't know whether he'll be gadol hadaor until he's in his 40's. So all boys should be learnining English<BR/><BR/>3- I'm using this situation to my advantage. The English department is so weak in most Yeshivas and there are a lot of concerned parents. So when I most probably end up in Lakewood, I'll start and English class for boys after school. (I'd do it now here in Brooklyn, but most parents aren't too keen on unmmarried girls)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4673987350740610491.post-13984932806186501372008-09-18T19:15:00.000-04:002008-09-18T19:15:00.000-04:00babysitter- the world runs on money.YOu can't ignr...babysitter- the world runs on money.<BR/><BR/>YOu can't ignroe it, and you cannot not obsess about it. Its your key to survival. You either obsess that you don't haev enough or you obsess about what to do with it when you have more than enough.<BR/><BR/>We're not Christain, we dont consider it holy to take on a vow of poverty. We like materialism, we just have to spiritualize it.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.com